Mystery Monday: Which Karlsberger married Charles Stahl?
Genealogy is kind of addicting. Sometimes, I get rather lost in the branches. As such, I run into mysteries that I can't seem to solve from the top down. I figured the genealogy community is awesome and may have ways to help me solve a mystery. Otherwise, perhaps a Karlsberger from Franklin County, Ohio might stumble upon my blog and help me solve this problem.
My potential 3rd great-grand uncle George Paul Karlsberger was born on 10 August 1825 in Bavaria. Another researcher suggested his connection to my 3rd great-grandmother Anna Magaretha Karlsberger who married Christian or Christopher Hoppe. Margaretha was born 29 February 1824. There are no definitive records linking George and Margaretha. And Margaretha's parents were not recorded, though parents for George were suggested.
As you can see, I am about to head down a twig on the tree that might be gnarled, or legitimate. George Karlsberger had six children born in Columbus, Franklin County, Ohio to his wife Maria Elizabeth Danner (born 8 July 1833 in Germany). The mystery concerns two of his children. I'll disregard the other children for the purpose of this post.
In the 1870 US Census1 , George and Maria are living in the Montgomery area of Franklin, Ohio. The two daughters in question Magdalena, 8, and Margaret, 6, are in the home (along with the other children).
In the 1880 US Census2, George and Maria are living in the Marion area of Franklin, Ohio. Again the two daughters in question are recorded but this time their names are Mary M, 18, and Maggie, 16. Maggie is often a nickname for Magdalena. Family records record Mary M as Mary Margaret.
Which age/name combination is correct? Is Mary Margaret 18 or 16 in 1880 and thus which age is Magdalena or Maggie? This seems a minor inconvenience until one asks the follow question:
Who did Charles H Stahl marry on 12 Apr 1883?
At quick glance, one would be lead to believe that this would be Mary Margaret Karlsberger.
The 1900 US census would appear to support this claim. The family included:
Head Chas. H. Stahl, 42
Wife Mary M. Stahl, 38
Daughter Mary E. Stahl, 17
Daughter Odelia Stahl, 15
Daughter Katie M. Stahl, 12
Daughter Artie Stahl, 10
Daughter Ivy Stahl, 7
Son Harvey C. Stahl, 4
The 1910 US Census has the family as this:
Head Charles H Stahl, 50
Wife Mary M Stahl, 47
Daughter Catia M Stahl, 21
Daughter Artie B Stahl, 19
Daughter Ivy E Stahl, 16
Son Harvey C Stahl, 14
Daughter Lorene L Stahl, 9
Daughter Hellen M Stahl, 6
** their eldest daughter Mary should be married to Mr. Francisco
The 1920 US Census records the family as this:
Head Charles Stahl, 60
Wife Mary M Stahl 58
Daughter Katy M Stahl 31
Daughter Ivy Stahl, 27
Son Harvey Stahl, 23
Daughter Lovenne Stahl, 19
Daughter Helen Stahl, 16
** Arite is no longer in the home.
The 1930 US Census records shows the family as this:
Head Charles H Stahl, 70
Wife Mary M Stahl, 67
Daughter Lorinna L Stahl 29
The 1940 US Census records shows the family as this:
Head Charles H Stahl, 80
Wife Mary M Stahl, 77
Daughter Lorinna L Stahl 59 (although this should probably read 39)
The name of Mary M Stahl remains consistent through the Census records. The age suggests the person is the older of the two sisters in question. Case closed, the mother's name is Mary M Stahl with the M standing for Margaret.
However, the trouble comes when the marriage records for the children are examined.
Mary E.'s second marriage, in 1917, lists her mother as Magdalina Karlsberger but her 1920 death record lists her mother's name as Mary Karlsberger.
Katie M's 1888 birth record indicates that her mother's name is Mary M Karleberger but her 1923 marriage record lists her mother as Magdalene Garlsberger
Ivy's 1893 birth record indicates her mother's name is Mary M Carlsberger and her 1927 death record says Mary Karlsburger
Charles H Stahl was born in 1896 and his mother was Mary M Karlsberger. It is believed Charles H became known as Havery C.
Helen's 1940 second marriage record lists her mother as May Kalsberger
Lorinne Lucille's 1992 death record only lists her father and mother's last names.
Charles' 1946 death record indicates that he was married to Mary M Stahl.
Okay...
Given the above information, one would be lead to believe that use of Magdalene, the sister or Mary M Karlsberger, was an error on the part of someone providing the information or the person writing the information down. Especially since two records for the same person conflict at later dates.
What do you think?
My potential 3rd great-grand uncle George Paul Karlsberger was born on 10 August 1825 in Bavaria. Another researcher suggested his connection to my 3rd great-grandmother Anna Magaretha Karlsberger who married Christian or Christopher Hoppe. Margaretha was born 29 February 1824. There are no definitive records linking George and Margaretha. And Margaretha's parents were not recorded, though parents for George were suggested.
As you can see, I am about to head down a twig on the tree that might be gnarled, or legitimate. George Karlsberger had six children born in Columbus, Franklin County, Ohio to his wife Maria Elizabeth Danner (born 8 July 1833 in Germany). The mystery concerns two of his children. I'll disregard the other children for the purpose of this post.
In the 1870 US Census1 , George and Maria are living in the Montgomery area of Franklin, Ohio. The two daughters in question Magdalena, 8, and Margaret, 6, are in the home (along with the other children).
In the 1880 US Census2, George and Maria are living in the Marion area of Franklin, Ohio. Again the two daughters in question are recorded but this time their names are Mary M, 18, and Maggie, 16. Maggie is often a nickname for Magdalena. Family records record Mary M as Mary Margaret.
Which age/name combination is correct? Is Mary Margaret 18 or 16 in 1880 and thus which age is Magdalena or Maggie? This seems a minor inconvenience until one asks the follow question:
Who did Charles H Stahl marry on 12 Apr 1883?
 |
| Marriage of Charles Stall to Mary Calsberger "Ohio, County Marriages, 1789-1994," index and images, FamilySearch (Charles Stall and Mary Carlsberger, 12 Apr 1883; citing Franklin, Ohio, United States, reference 25; FHL microfilm 285149. |
At quick glance, one would be lead to believe that this would be Mary Margaret Karlsberger.
The 1900 US census would appear to support this claim. The family included:
Head Chas. H. Stahl, 42
Wife Mary M. Stahl, 38
Daughter Mary E. Stahl, 17
Daughter Odelia Stahl, 15
Daughter Katie M. Stahl, 12
Daughter Artie Stahl, 10
Daughter Ivy Stahl, 7
Son Harvey C. Stahl, 4
The 1910 US Census has the family as this:
Head Charles H Stahl, 50
Wife Mary M Stahl, 47
Daughter Catia M Stahl, 21
Daughter Artie B Stahl, 19
Daughter Ivy E Stahl, 16
Son Harvey C Stahl, 14
Daughter Lorene L Stahl, 9
Daughter Hellen M Stahl, 6
** their eldest daughter Mary should be married to Mr. Francisco
The 1920 US Census records the family as this:
Head Charles Stahl, 60
Wife Mary M Stahl 58
Daughter Katy M Stahl 31
Daughter Ivy Stahl, 27
Son Harvey Stahl, 23
Daughter Lovenne Stahl, 19
Daughter Helen Stahl, 16
** Arite is no longer in the home.
The 1930 US Census records shows the family as this:
Head Charles H Stahl, 70
Wife Mary M Stahl, 67
Daughter Lorinna L Stahl 29
The 1940 US Census records shows the family as this:
Head Charles H Stahl, 80
Wife Mary M Stahl, 77
Daughter Lorinna L Stahl 59 (although this should probably read 39)
However, the trouble comes when the marriage records for the children are examined.
Mary E.'s second marriage, in 1917, lists her mother as Magdalina Karlsberger but her 1920 death record lists her mother's name as Mary Karlsberger.
Odelia's 1906 marriage record doesn't help as she does not name her mother's first name, only the last name of Carlsberger.
Katie M's 1888 birth record indicates that her mother's name is Mary M Karleberger but her 1923 marriage record lists her mother as Magdalene Garlsberger
Ivy's 1893 birth record indicates her mother's name is Mary M Carlsberger and her 1927 death record says Mary Karlsburger
Charles H Stahl was born in 1896 and his mother was Mary M Karlsberger. It is believed Charles H became known as Havery C.
Helen's 1940 second marriage record lists her mother as May Kalsberger
Lorinne Lucille's 1992 death record only lists her father and mother's last names.
Charles' 1946 death record indicates that he was married to Mary M Stahl.
Okay...
Given the above information, one would be lead to believe that use of Magdalene, the sister or Mary M Karlsberger, was an error on the part of someone providing the information or the person writing the information down. Especially since two records for the same person conflict at later dates.
What do you think?
I think of Maggie as a nickname for Margaret, especially since I have a relative of that name and nickname. (I've never known a Magdalene.)
ReplyDeleteWhat about newspaper records? For any family member in any likely decade? Do keep your readers updated!
Will do. I have a great-grandmother Magdalena Marguerta Hoppe who married Henry Geiszler. Her nickname was Maggie. I figured the Maggie was associated with Magdalena rather than the Marguerita. Perhaps that's because my mother's aunt Maguerite went by Peggy. I'll let you know what I figure out.
DeleteHi my name is Bill white my grandmother was Clara Elizabeth Karlsberger White her father was Charles her grandfather Conrad who came to the us in 1825
ReplyDeleteThe George Karlsberger has been a pain in my side for too many years! There are actually two (I think) George Paulaus was George and Conrads father and George paul died in the state mental hospital i cannot connect the either George to Conrad .
Francisco married one of my great grandma's sisters.. and my great grandmother is buried on her grave I will try and send you pictures of the grave cards if you like
Bill white
Toohatbill@gmail.com
Bill, thanks for contacting me. I'll be sending you an email very soon.
DeleteTophatbill@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteIsn't it frustrating when you have a potential/likely link, but don't have the evidence you need to prove it? Drives me crazy! Here's hoping that you find such a link and prove that George and Anna Margarethe are related (you probably know this already, but many Germans traditionally went by their middle names. It wasn't unusual to have all same-sex sibs to have the same first name, in fact).
ReplyDelete